tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post7857021994961919725..comments2024-03-18T15:05:49.941+00:00Comments on Lallands Peat Worrier: Talking turkeyLallands Peat Worrierhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18276270498204697708noreply@blogger.comBlogger30125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-90404314174888613262015-02-18T16:31:11.866+00:002015-02-18T16:31:11.866+00:00I agree with your apprehension Andrew. I share it ...I agree with your apprehension Andrew. I share it as well. <br /><br />My main point about having 40+ SNP MPs is that surely they would be better servants to their constituents. This is a point vastly overlooked. I would rather have Natalie McGarry as my MP than Margaret Curran. I would rather have Patrick Grady in place of Anne McKechin, Alison Thewliss in place of Anas Sarwar etc. And I'm sure you're no different.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00802996690941809545noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-54269805586497898782015-01-17T19:40:50.914+00:002015-01-17T19:40:50.914+00:00UDIUDIThomasPotterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07988181694826109700noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-59133586776205689992015-01-16T11:59:15.119+00:002015-01-16T11:59:15.119+00:00Aye,the perpetually sad affair of the Front Line a...Aye,the perpetually sad affair of the Front Line and the Back Room. Invisible strings being what they are. Maybe the wee man was better brandishing a brace of Machiavellian biros,their repution supposedly being mightier than the scimitar.kailyard ruleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11098989013431186162noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-54451089646512662672015-01-15T22:06:19.155+00:002015-01-15T22:06:19.155+00:00The arrangement between the Tories and SNP - howe...The arrangement between the Tories and SNP - however you want to label it - worked well for the Tories, as they proudly boasted at the time -<br /><br />http://conservativehome.blogs.com/torydiary/2008/02/snp-agrees-to-t.html<br /><br />'In return for budget votes, SNP agrees to Tory policies on more police officers, drug treatment and business tax relief'<br /><br />The SNP got its budgets through, the Tories got election pledges implemented - it happened, no rewriting of history involved. Reach for the kleenex if you don't like it.<br /><br />What no one foresaw, of course, was at the next election 50% of our voters would sit on their arses rather than vote.<br /><br />I think Andrew is also right though on the forthcoming Westminster coalition, it would be very hard for the SNP to cross Nicola's new line in the sand.<br /><br />But the oil crash reminds us - as if we needed reminding - that our world is chaotic, and Nicola's impersonation of William B Travis cutting his line may yet turn out to be of massive irrelevance.<br />Edwin Moorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05317173893948248954noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-71035098168695887502015-01-15T19:28:13.424+00:002015-01-15T19:28:13.424+00:00It's a completely different context surely?. S...It's a completely different context surely?. Scottish Tories like Annabel and Ruth are a different league from Cameron and Osborne. They are not the power elite. Plus, they are further diminished by the fact that they are in a minority at Holrood and owe the fact that they have a seat at all to the Scottish parliament's proportional voting whereas at Westminster English Tories would outnumber our 59 MPs by at least 5 to 1. In short, they're tamed and in their place. devorgillahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11885637866018093933noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-4686826179198976332015-01-15T18:56:13.700+00:002015-01-15T18:56:13.700+00:00That's why I think the grass roots Yes movemen...That's why I think the grass roots Yes movement needs to continue. Mass meetings, rallies, events.... we, the people, cannot be complacenent.<br /><br />If somebody gives you freedom, it's not freedom.<br /><br />Freedom is that thing that a man or a woman takes for themselves.devorgillahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11885637866018093933noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-30963168947646772952015-01-15T17:21:52.101+00:002015-01-15T17:21:52.101+00:00It is a fair point: I do gloss over that issue her...It is a fair point: I do gloss over that issue here, and it too is definitely part of the 2015 "pitch". Trident is an interesting too. I was asking a Labour pal the other day if they thought there might be a quiet majority (or at least a significant minority) in Labour's parliamentary delegation which might welcome the pretext to ditch Trident renewal which an SNP bloc might give them? Mibbies aye.Lallands Peat Worrierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07238432265194046726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-25063452788952929202015-01-15T17:18:46.116+00:002015-01-15T17:18:46.116+00:00In my experience, true purpose and direction in po...In my experience, true purpose and direction in politics is generally aided by a capacity for Machiavellian calculation. Lallands Peat Worrierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07238432265194046726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-67577439793015331892015-01-15T17:17:20.965+00:002015-01-15T17:17:20.965+00:00Indeed (though one does feel sorry, sometimes, for...Indeed (though one does feel sorry, sometimes, for the party's new deputy, who has been rather eclipsed by the promise of Salmond's aubergine-shaped frame bobbing into the Westminster orbit.)Lallands Peat Worrierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07238432265194046726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-61371933819864364342015-01-15T17:15:15.234+00:002015-01-15T17:15:15.234+00:00That wasn't quite what I was aiming for, and c...That wasn't quite what I was aiming for, and certainly isn't what I think. The overwhelming weight of commentary in Scottish politics at the moment makes no mention whatever about the risks I attempted to touch on here. They are, will or nil it, real -- and we gain perspective, rather than losing resolve, but having them in mind. At least, that's my philosophy. Lallands Peat Worrierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07238432265194046726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-22690438739050435952015-01-15T15:29:16.176+00:002015-01-15T15:29:16.176+00:00There was virtually no mention in the article of S...There was virtually no mention in the article of SNP's ability, if they wield a strong phalanx of MPs, to extract v significant enhanced devo powers from Labour. That's th main point isn't it? It creates its own momentum as we know. It's the long game. Get real concessions and it is worth holding your nose and, having tried to mitigate, voting along with budgets you don't like or other unpleasantries. They are not for ever. Every enhanced power though, is in practice forever and will lead to eventual independence.<br /><br />I am more concerned about the Trident issue (and generally the self-preservation of a terminally corrupt paedophile-protective WM establishment) leading to a grand ConLab coalition. And yet even here I wonder if Nicola & Eck have not been doing some in-depth research into Labour. The anti-Trident cause is so overwhelmingly logical it has a groundswell of English support including from more than a few Labour MPs also. Not all Labour is Blairite and wants to starve social services in order to fund nuclear warheads when we lack troops and airplanes. Brought out by SNP and slammed on the negotiating table, I think the Trident issue might well provoke a serious split in Labour party ranks. It is good card. Not to mention morally correct. lawrenceabhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16425746967578710370noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-83357202101316438642015-01-15T14:50:57.716+00:002015-01-15T14:50:57.716+00:00There's the rub - there is no democracy for th...There's the rub - there is no democracy for this nation of serfs. Alihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12543586983692447920noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-19248662096552223982015-01-15T14:09:22.696+00:002015-01-15T14:09:22.696+00:00You have to admire the tactics. We'll set ours...You have to admire the tactics. We'll set ourselves up as a new or renewed Left - an alternative to Labour - and then we'll fight an election in which we can only win, at best, 59 of the 600+ seats. <br /><br />It's a UK general election - a Goliathan democracy bursting into song and 45 million people voting to decide their destiny - and the SNP, by virtue of prizing nationalism over democracy, have basically opted out. It all, I'm afraid, comes back to Labour in the end. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-89659358315565888362015-01-15T14:03:55.318+00:002015-01-15T14:03:55.318+00:00Armchair punditry.Parlour room polemics.Crystal-ba...Armchair punditry.Parlour room polemics.Crystal-ball iffery couldery shouldery.Well,see yon wee garcon ,there in the picture brandishing his pistols beside the doughty damsel waving the tri-colour?Nothing Machiavellian regarding his true purpose and direction.kailyard ruleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11098989013431186162noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-56621419364898612662015-01-15T13:44:40.788+00:002015-01-15T13:44:40.788+00:00The long and the short of it is that we can do not...The long and the short of it is that we can do nothing else, chips falling where they may. Playing the hand will be tricky, and if you wanted someone to play it Eck is probably that person.<br /><br />The odds of the following general election being 5 years hence must be rather long though. It ought to prove that no matter who we vote for we get what England wants, broadly speaking. Playing the hand so as to please a domestic audience long term will be the tightrope walk.Alihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12543586983692447920noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-56461230251507534032015-01-15T11:45:51.477+00:002015-01-15T11:45:51.477+00:00Man, your piece is filled with - this could go bad...Man, your piece is filled with - this could go badly, that could go wrong, if it's not played right that other thing will happen. Yes we need to be careful but your post suggests it is such an uncertain and dangerous proposition for the SNP it's not even worth trying. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16470602188399601641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-49220871290922991112015-01-15T11:29:32.891+00:002015-01-15T11:29:32.891+00:00Gazumped! Gazumped! Lallands Peat Worrierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07238432265194046726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-2170360511891123922015-01-15T10:59:40.730+00:002015-01-15T10:59:40.730+00:00(When I started typing that, you hadn't replie...(When I started typing that, you hadn't replied to Taranaich, but now you have, so I look like a diddy. Damn you!)Doug Danielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15017218581660887134noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-63410672493125443942015-01-15T10:56:34.246+00:002015-01-15T10:56:34.246+00:00I agree with Taranaich, I'm not sure I get the...I agree with Taranaich, I'm not sure I get the point regarding replacing their feeble fifty with one of our own, because it kind of leads you to the inevitable conclusion that if there's no point in the SNP having lots of MPs - and there's certainly no point having hardly any - then what's the point in even standing?<br /><br />I think you're maybe underplaying a pretty major weapon for the SNP here. Labour can only govern in England if it has a supply of Scottish MPs to back its proposals. If the Feeble Fifty is replaced with a chunk of SNP MPs who don't vote on English matters, that reduces a Labour government's ability to pass legislation in England that is opposed by the Tories. Unless, of course, those SNP MPs can be convinced to "interfere" in English matters (for a price, of course). That may indeed seem to counteract the argument that only independence can deliver the politics the majority in Scotland desire, but is turning the Westminster elections into a permanency of SNP whitewashes really the solution people crave?<br /><br />And then there's the nuclear option - neither Labour or Tories having enough to govern on their own, nor even form two-party coalitions, so thinking "well, it works in Germany..." and creating a grand coalition. That would be lethal for Labour in Scotland, especially if it's done before the 2016 election. But given the choice between forming a minority government with confidence and supply from anti-Trident parties, or biting the bullet to form a Trident-saving coalition with the Tories, I suspect London Labour would go for option b.<br /><br />Both scenarios, in my eyes, could only accelerate the journey to independence. Both give us the opportunity to break the union, either from within, or by forcing the hand of others. The alternative - making do with a smattering of SNP MPs while leaving Labour to prop themselves up with a gang of obedient Scottish MPs - couldn't possibly be better.<br /><br />Don't get me wrong, I totally agree that we need to be careful of expecting too much, but the lower you aim, the less you achieve.Doug Danielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15017218581660887134noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-56119269480911602472015-01-15T10:54:32.806+00:002015-01-15T10:54:32.806+00:00I was thinking much the same thing myself last nig...I was thinking much the same thing myself last night. Lallands Peat Worrierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07238432265194046726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-51354243318968663572015-01-15T10:46:50.691+00:002015-01-15T10:46:50.691+00:00My only point was this, really. However you wish t...My only point was this, really. However you wish to characterise the negotiations, the fact that the SNP government's budgets were being passed with Tory support between 2007 and 2011 never achieved much political salience. I suspect few of the punters really had much idea that this was happening, and there was no political hit for the Nationalists in being seen to cooperate with the Conservatives. We cannot expect any SNP cooperation with Westminster budgets to be treated in the same light.Lallands Peat Worrierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07238432265194046726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-50275612436640199932015-01-15T10:41:59.642+00:002015-01-15T10:41:59.642+00:00Two distinct senses of "feeble" here, I ...Two distinct senses of "feeble" here, I think. In its 1980s sense, the feeble fifty's feebleness was less down to their collusion with Mrs Thatcher - though the behaviour of some Labour MPs on the poll tax dissent is a dishonourable counterpoint - but the fact that <i>even if</i> they opposed the majority Tory government stoutly, it had limited impact. It is this fate, rather than the latter, I was referring to here. If you can't have an impact on decision-making, after all, at least you can kick up a decent stooshie about it. A lesson dealt by a juvenile Alex Salmond, when he took to his pins and heckled during one of Lawson's budgets. Lallands Peat Worrierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07238432265194046726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-81154947274548926562015-01-15T10:38:32.847+00:002015-01-15T10:38:32.847+00:00Les,
We'll see how long the Fixed Term Parlia...Les,<br /><br />We'll see how long the Fixed Term Parliaments Act survives. It hangs on a politically shoogly peg (not least because they granted themselves an excessive fixed term, five years to Holyrood's four. In terms of SNP performance, twelve seats would be the party's best ever performance. My caution derives, in part, from past results. In 2010, for example, the party did poorly in places where we actually win in Holyrood. In my childhood stamping ground of Argyll and Bute, for example, there has been an SNP MSP since 2007, but in 2010, we came <i>fourth</i> in the seat. Other constituencies tell similar stories. I'm not ruling out a radical change - the referendum has shaken many things up - but it is important to have some sense of the magnitude of the electoral shift folk are enthusiastically expecting. There is a risk - probably an unavoidable risk, given the polls - of making the best the enemy of the good here.Lallands Peat Worrierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07238432265194046726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-45019814523944554722015-01-15T10:03:38.533+00:002015-01-15T10:03:38.533+00:00Seeking support for budgets is a world away from a...Seeking support for budgets is a world away from an informal alliance. The very nature of minority government means seeking support from other parties - the annual horse-trading leading up to the budget vote was one of the things that used to get the political bubble excited between 2007 and 2011.<br /><br />This rewriting of history to turn regular horse-trading into an informal alliance is transparent pish.Doug Danielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15017218581660887134noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-18599295977941180452015-01-15T08:16:33.226+00:002015-01-15T08:16:33.226+00:00As divorce lawyers gleefully assert, deniability i...As divorce lawyers gleefully assert, deniability is built into informal arrangement, but there is surely little doubt that some kind of arrangement was in place between the SNP and Tories. In September, Auntie Annabel gave Errant Eck a good smack for denying the affair -<br /><br />http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/10/alex-salmond-hypocrisy-former-scottish-tories-leader-annabel-goldie<br /><br />'Goldie, who forged a close working relationship with Salmond as Scottish Tory leader between 2007 and 2011, said the first minister was guilty of double standards for repeatedly attacking Labour's coalition with the Tories in the anti-independence campaign.<br /><br />Goldie said: "When his political fate depended on us, he didn't think twice before seeking and taking our support. It is quite extraordinary that he's now doing a complete volte-face and now proclaims that the Tories are the worst things on the earth.'<br /><br />As Severin observes<br /><br />'The SNP is also in coalition with the Tories in at least one Scottish council, South Ayrshire, and has been in multi-party coalitions with the Conservatives and other parties several times since taking power in 2007'<br /><br />There are in fact several unlikely coalitions at council level which seem to be muddling through which is surely a good sign for the body politic. We can't always be throwing eggs at each other.<br /><br />Edwin Moorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05317173893948248954noreply@blogger.com