tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post6159203184818688999..comments2024-03-28T07:16:39.621+00:00Comments on Lallands Peat Worrier: Notes from "Middle Scotland"Lallands Peat Worrierhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18276270498204697708noreply@blogger.comBlogger34125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-19037008435790608002017-10-06T22:09:11.765+01:002017-10-06T22:09:11.765+01:00Apparently their position was 'give it five mo...Apparently their position was 'give it five months, then appoint him Director of Communications'.Oolonghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03127872308267217497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-75090354412074231302016-03-26T11:15:09.061+00:002016-03-26T11:15:09.061+00:00By my admittedly shaky arithmetic, the 6.5% supera...By my admittedly shaky arithmetic, the 6.5% superannuation contribution for teaches, which comes off before taxable income is determined, makes the de facto threshold £45,140. While I was working in a promoted post, the 6.5% kept me just out of the upper tax bracket. (Can't remember whether AVC's also had an effect).Cairnallochyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00923918330435976833noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-18723549879525756792016-03-26T08:56:20.400+00:002016-03-26T08:56:20.400+00:00As far as I can see, the whole shebang is that Osb...As far as I can see, the whole shebang is that Osborne is intending to raise the threshold for higher earners, and Swinney is intending the current threshold to remain. By changing nothing, the Scottish Government will gain (slightly) more tax income p.h. than doon sooth from the tax earners in this bracket although there are hardly any compared to Eng/Wales. I really don't see why anyone in that tax range should be worried they're not paying More tax here, but the same as now. Unless there's something I'm missing.<br />Perplexed of Edinburgh.Bonnington Millhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16893943520518595169noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-8073874339522789842016-03-21T07:22:28.386+00:002016-03-21T07:22:28.386+00:00Imagine I said: "Oh, here is (really) low-tax...Imagine I said: "Oh, here is (really) low-tax Switzerland overtaking Denmark in a more recent self-reported happiness study".<br /><br />The study I cited is from 2015. Face reality Paul - there is no evidence that a low-tax economy *necessarily* leads to greater productivity, competitiveness or happiness. Scottish society has many of the features of Danish society and it could succeed in achieving some of the best outcomes that Denmark has achieved given the right mixture of policies. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05377329780194422401noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-31547865418146981612016-03-21T01:58:11.340+00:002016-03-21T01:58:11.340+00:00I'm not going to change your mind - I can see ...I'm not going to change your mind - I can see that. But I can't go without saying this: think about how you're arguing.<br /><br />Imagine I said: "Oh, here is (really) low-tax Switzerland overtaking Denmark in a more recent self-reported happiness study". As I could well do: see John F. Helliwell, Richard Layard, and Jeffrey Sachs, eds, World Happiness Report 2015 (New York: Sustainable Development Solutions Network, 2015.<br /><br />Would I win the argument? Of course not. I'd only show people that my mode of argument was a cheap one. Firing superficial counterpoints about makes the whole enterprise of argument a bit boring for my taste.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-55173902066981641702016-03-21T01:47:10.481+00:002016-03-21T01:47:10.481+00:00Despite my use of the world always, I wasn't t...Despite my use of the world always, I wasn't thinking of failed states or zero-tax states where economic development is in its embryonic stages. And, let's have it right, you knew as much.<br /><br />You might've been more scrupulous in your research. Tit-bits pulled from five minutes on Google won't cut it.<br /><br />Is the historical trend of income taxation in Denmark an upward one - say in the past 40 years? Corporation tax? Any other taxation at all? The answer is no.<br /><br />Go look into the operation of corporation tax in Denmark. Not just the rate, but its scope. Then look at the rates and arrangements of its neighbours. You'll see why it succeeds in being competitive. And it isn't because it solicits the pockets of businesses. Nor, indeed, is it because it solicits the pockets of people coming into Denmark to work. Special (lower) income tax rates will apply on application to those people. Easy to see why: they wouldn't have a penny to their name in their home country if the Danish rates applied.<br /><br />We've never had the demographic harmony or political consensus in the UK to create a behemoth welfare state a la Scandinavia. And it's a good thing too - no state will sustain it perpetually, as the Scandinavian countries are finding out. The subsidised education, the healthcare. If you subsidise these things you chain them to the state's finite coffers and the larger economic world cares not a jot for those coffers.<br /><br />So the near-utopic picture of Denmark is rubbish. Academic-inflation, as it is sometimes known, is a problem in all Scandinavian countries. For the labour market, that is. Lots of qualified people not in demand. Devalued degrees and all the rest of it. Same as Scotland IMO.<br /><br />As for happiness, well, the homogeneousness of Denmark over time, its trade-links, its geography, its EU membership... Fuck. It would've taken something for them to balls it up. They're not sitting pretty because they've done things differently. They're sitting pretty because things have been done differently to them (in history).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-78659459407303701052016-03-20T21:56:01.949+00:002016-03-20T21:56:01.949+00:00"Progress and competition always inclines to ..."Progress and competition always inclines to less taxation, not more. If Scotland can't keep pace with the UK, it'll be looked on negatively, to the detriment of its people."<br /><br />If that were true, countries with zero tax rates would be the wealthiest and happiest on the planet. Denmark has tax rates which are significantly higher than in the UK - it had the highest tax to GDP ratio among OECD countries in 2014 (source: http://www.oecd.org/ctp/tax-policy/revenue-statistics-ratio-change-latest-years.htm). <br /><br />Far from being a miserably uncompetitive state, not only is Denmark the third easiest country in the world in which to do business, (source: http://www.doingbusiness.org/data/exploreeconomies/denmark) its people rank themselves as the happiest in the world (source: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/denmark-happiest-country-for-third-time-united-nations-report-a6934196.html).<br /><br />I'm afraid that yet again your claims don't fit the facts - there is no evidence that a low tax economy is necessarily more competitive than a high tax economy. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05377329780194422401noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-52901685597613186782016-03-19T23:29:46.251+00:002016-03-19T23:29:46.251+00:00It's amazing other countries get by at all giv...It's amazing other countries get by at all given that they have neighbours with different taxation rates. They must all long to rest on the broad shoulders of Westminster.<br /><br />And what if the rUK can't keep pace with us?aedanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05049597772386099215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-50064240411037640902016-03-19T22:37:49.853+00:002016-03-19T22:37:49.853+00:00I'm not without sympathy for what you say but ...I'm not without sympathy for what you say but I'm the prisoner of what I know about economic history.<br /><br />I can hardly quarrel with your figures re how much it'll cost higher earners. Petty cash, I'm sure. It's the message of the policy that'll do the damage (rightly or wrongly). You'd say wrongly. I wouldn't say at all.<br /><br />The creation of any uncertainty about taxation, especially where the doubt inclines to its increase, will take the wind out of Scotland's economic sails.<br /><br />No economy ever faired better than its competitors as a direct consequence of imposing higher taxes on its participants. Doesn't matter if it's pennies.<br /><br />Progress and competition always inclines to less taxation, not more. If Scotland can't keep pace with the UK, it'll be looked on negatively, to the detriment of its people. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-9893111313728489002016-03-19T20:54:30.516+00:002016-03-19T20:54:30.516+00:00Paul, Paul, Paul - if a future Scottish government...Paul, Paul, Paul - if a future Scottish government (SNP no doubt) decides to use future devolved powers to over-turn the raising of the tax band, it will mean people earning between £45,000 and £100,000 in Scotland will not save about £400 per year compared to their counterparts in the rest of the UK: <br /><br />"The £2,000 rise in the starting point for 40% tax means a £400 annual saving for everyone who earns between £45,000 and £100,000. After that level of income, the value of the allowance tapers off."<br /><br />Are you really sure that the hard-working, wealth-creating, entrepreneurial types you imagine earn these salaries are going to cease or curtail their endeavours over less than £8 per week?<br /><br />Are they such fragile little creatures? <br /><br />I don't know if Tim Berners-Lee salary in 1990 would have put him into the 40% higher tax bracket if he'd been liable for UK income tax (although I assume he earned more than the equivalent of £20,700) around the time he helped develop one of the greatest wealth creation machines yet invented. I *do* know that his salary and Robert Cailliau's salary were funded by the states which were members of CERN at that time, making them effectively public sector employees. Trillions of dollars of wealth have been generated by the world-wide web, with zillions more to come. In its essentials it's the product of the public sector. And a product which already has generated and will generate so much wealth for the private sector that every penny, cent or centime of tax paid in the millenia before its development has been repaid in full and much, much, much, much, much, much more. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05377329780194422401noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-27434784405369451342016-03-19T11:52:08.342+00:002016-03-19T11:52:08.342+00:00Thank fuck for that.Thank fuck for that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-59713229705544674262016-03-19T11:32:41.513+00:002016-03-19T11:32:41.513+00:00I'm not convinced you fully understand what ma...I'm not convinced you fully understand what masochism means either. <br /><br />I'm not your mate.aedanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05049597772386099215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-57416518957234036732016-03-19T10:50:40.479+00:002016-03-19T10:50:40.479+00:00I'll make like the Scottish Government and sti...I'll make like the Scottish Government and stick to my guns mate. If ever the left admitted the possibility (countenanced) that a lower tax threshold in Scotland might be economic masochism, I'd... Reconsider.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-14026487328848015722016-03-19T10:05:45.782+00:002016-03-19T10:05:45.782+00:00Alan Roden journalist nickname is babbleAlan Roden journalist nickname is babblewaterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03242753707412340371noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-12724679289634221482016-03-19T08:00:16.018+00:002016-03-19T08:00:16.018+00:00Hmmm, reply gone.
Let's try again, it might a...Hmmm, reply gone.<br /><br />Let's try again, it might appear twice.<br /><br />I could countenance many things, up to, but not including, a decent tune from Mr Lloyd Webber. I don't give everything which could be countenanced serious consideration and that particularly applies to Mr Lloyd Webber.<br /><br />Might consider have been a better choice? aedanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05049597772386099215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-27840298998822468872016-03-18T23:46:52.259+00:002016-03-18T23:46:52.259+00:00I do know what it is to countenance, yes. My use o...I do know what it is to countenance, yes. My use of the verb (above) is proper.<br /><br />You have me interested: what do you think it means to countenance?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-20432681384108130832016-03-18T23:38:50.190+00:002016-03-18T23:38:50.190+00:00Are you sure you understand what countenance means...Are you sure you understand what countenance means when used as a verb?<br /><br />Might "consider" have been better?<br /><br />No more arduous than other things i have done this evening. I've recently taken up the harmonica. The A6 on the 10 draw reed is a beast.aedanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05049597772386099215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-69815257951402755102016-03-18T23:29:44.644+00:002016-03-18T23:29:44.644+00:00Aedan. I have the twofold impression that I won...Aedan. I have the twofold impression that I won't be able to dissuade you of my misunderstanding or get you to countenance the masochism of having the tax threshold in Scotland set lower than rUK.<br /><br />I wrote as I did because the blogger wrote what he wrote below.<br /><br />"Most Scottish workers need a pair of binoculars to see the upper rate of tax, never mind to benefit from Mr Osborne's unnecessary cuts."<br /><br />The "Joe Public" I imagine is the average Scottish worker. The sector (in brackets) was an allusion in anticipation of the sort of workers up for discussion (a needless allusion perhaps!). For the arduous character I have given your life and anyone else's, I am sorry.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-656331571006666262016-03-18T23:10:57.097+00:002016-03-18T23:10:57.097+00:00If you were aware of the blogger's intentions ...If you were aware of the blogger's intentions then why did you write this, "Evidencing that claim, you mock the Daily Mail by conceiving of Joe Public as a policeman, nurse or teacher of whatever seniority, existing on a rigid-salary scale as those professionals typically do."?<br /><br />Should you not have written "… mock the Daily Mail for conceiving…"?<br /><br />aedanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05049597772386099215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-81233527234043917442016-03-18T22:59:36.758+00:002016-03-18T22:59:36.758+00:00Mark Murray.
I can only think that you didn't...Mark Murray.<br /><br />I can only think that you didn't read my reply in full or have misunderstood it in your haste to disagree.<br /><br />I was then and am now aware of the blogger's intention. I acknowledged that his decision to examine the earnings of the professionals he did was driven by the Daily Mail as opposed to his own whim ("mock"; "somewhat in jest"). Or, as 'aedan' puts it that the "policeman, nurse or teacher concept was established by someone else".<br /><br />The message of this blog is broader than an exact debunking of Daily Mail hysteria though. Come on. One doesn't excoriate every inaccuracy one reads. Inevitably one devotes less time to highlighting inaccuracies incidental to a larger, agreeable opinion.<br /><br />Anyone might've pointed out the fatuity of suggesting that nurses, teachers, policemen and all of their pockets are out to be raided by the Scottish Government (hence my echo chamber comment); it is a boring habit of those on the left to point out the misinformation and bias of newspapers as though they were owed something better. Newspapers owe nothing whatever to the public and are in the business of bias and misinformation. Long may it be so that one has to learn how to sort the right from the wrong.<br /><br />(Getting back...) the blogger's analysis is unscrupulous in being tied to the salary bands of the (public sector) professionals discussed. Overtime, bank-work, unsociable working premiums aren't mentioned and equivalent private-sector professionals aren't considered (there are quite a lot of nurses now in the private sector, for example). Many precisely because the opportunities are more lucrative (£) than the NHS.<br /><br />All the other things I say about wage-inflation and the extent to which high-earners are responsible for economic prosperity stand of course. The blogger would've done better to take those into account.<br /><br />If you go on to read the article in the Mail, it does bring more accurate and less hysterical stuff to the fore. For example, about how many people might be worse-off in Scotland as opposed to elsewhere in the UK should tax policy diverge in the relevant way.<br /><br />The Mail, in its *ahem* way, coded the message that middle-class Scotland would be worse-off than its English equivalent. That will be true in terms of earnings should the SG stick to its guns. That the blogger here chooses to pick up on lazy journalism rather than countenance the bigger point about tax-cuts for rich(er) people is disappointing and - I thought obviously - what I was getting at.<br /><br />Tax cuts for higher earners work. Greater actual tax takes (£) and more participation in taxation are almost always the outcomes. The Scottish Government would do well to acknowledge as much.<br /><br />NB: amended for typo.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-22852091399070464742016-03-18T22:55:01.361+00:002016-03-18T22:55:01.361+00:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-69237017963825882782016-03-18T22:41:54.775+00:002016-03-18T22:41:54.775+00:00No-one is paying more. Some are merely not paying ...No-one is paying more. Some are merely not paying less. Gideon is cutting tax for higher earners. We may not.Dabshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13794337933211140333noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-53007503625002220202016-03-18T21:20:51.370+00:002016-03-18T21:20:51.370+00:00I wonder what Scottish Labour's position is on...I wonder what Scottish Labour's position is on this. Anyone know?<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-10325656641952157022016-03-18T20:24:30.916+00:002016-03-18T20:24:30.916+00:00There are certainly overtime considerations for nu...There are certainly overtime considerations for nurses and police officers, not so much so for teachers, I imagine. All of those public sector staff still have the benefit of a final salary pension scheme. One of the benefits of those schemes is that the contributions made are not subject to tax. So each of these people will have about 6-10% to deduct from salary on top of the £42,385 before paying higher rate tax.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04243976943532040132noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-67263726628217293302016-03-18T17:30:49.671+00:002016-03-18T17:30:49.671+00:00Paul; Everyone mocks the Daily Mail. Apart from Da...Paul; Everyone mocks the Daily Mail. Apart from Daily Mail readers...Conan the Librarian™https://www.blogger.com/profile/01904339261121451779noreply@blogger.com