tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post2987071837850265280..comments2024-03-28T07:16:39.621+00:00Comments on Lallands Peat Worrier: No parliament for all seasons...Lallands Peat Worrierhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18276270498204697708noreply@blogger.comBlogger98125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-75164590913101237022011-11-28T15:09:51.906+00:002011-11-28T15:09:51.906+00:00"Consider my fingers gnawed off permanently n...<i>"Consider my fingers gnawed off permanently now"</i><br /><br />If it stops you typing endless bollocks, then I have performed a heroic service for humanity. Sadly, I doubt it will. I suspect the only time in life you're truly happy is when you're greeting about being persecuted.RevStuhttp://wingsland.podgamer.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-56953759612125188552011-11-28T14:59:51.046+00:002011-11-28T14:59:51.046+00:00Ah so!
On top of knowing next to nothing about wh...Ah so!<br /><br />On top of knowing next to nothing about what you are commenting on in Scotland................you then go on to flout how little you know of the recent conflict in Ireland. Hint, pick up a book or two and stop reading Daily mail type newspapers. Irish Republicans/Loyalists and even those who were wrongfully convicted of crimes in the main at least done some time for their crimes. How many british Ministers, secret service personell and soldiers can say the same. The British state was the main protaganist in the conflict, and was forced to the negotiating table. In an ideal world all would have to account for their crimes.<br /><br />Here was me thinking that ignorance was only a badge of honour amongst the young.<br /><br />Oh and the evidence that you may have missed has came from several sources and is littered throughout the last two threads. It really is ultra tedious trying to reason with the unreasonable.<br /><br />Consider my fingers gnawed off permanently now when it comes to you Stu.Tonynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-76321981804548901652011-11-28T14:38:28.335+00:002011-11-28T14:38:28.335+00:00"Your claims/denials fly in the face of all t...<i>"Your claims/denials fly in the face of all the evidence."</i><br /><br />"Evidence" is the one thing your posts have consistently lacked. A bill is proposed to outlaw all sectarian provocation and your only answer is "It will be applied against Celtic fans but not Rangers ones!", based on precisely nothing.<br /><br /><i>"You are totally divorced from reality."</i><br /><br />Let me tell you about reality, Tony. I live in England now. I've been here for many years, and I could count on one hand the number of times I've been reminded that there are different sects of Christianity in Britain. It's simply never, ever any kind of an issue anywhere.<br /><br />When I talk to Scots, and especially Catholics, the chances of going five minutes without someone bringing it up are close to nil. Of all the things I miss about home, that one isn't in the top 50 million.<br /><br />On the island of Ireland, not too long ago, people spent several decades murdering each other. Indiscriminate bombings of innocent civilians or targeted assassinations of unarmed individuals, the killings went on an on, tit for tat for tit for tat, until against the odds some politicians came up with an agreement.<br /><br />The agreement seemed in some senses an offence against humanity. Cold-blooded murderers on both sides of the divide were released en masse from prison to live their lives as free men, while the tears had barely dried on the cheeks of their victims' families.<br /><br />I and many other onlookers were horrified. How could this possibly be right? And yet it worked, and it worked because the people of Ireland said <i>"Okay, enough is enough. Let's draw a line under the past and live in peace rather than trying forever to level the scores."</i><br /><br />In other words, they all grew up and got the fuck over the grudges of ancient history. Only in Scotland do their followers refuse to come out of the jungle and acknowledge that it's the 21st Century and the Irish War is over. You should give it a try. It's nice here.RevStuhttp://wingsland.podgamer.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-1621579087122962862011-11-28T14:12:21.906+00:002011-11-28T14:12:21.906+00:00I should have taken the nurse's advice.
You a...I should have taken the nurse's advice.<br /><br />You are totally divorced from reality. Your claims/denials fly in the face of all the evidence.<br /><br />Good day!Tonynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-65976358236949709962011-11-28T13:59:28.532+00:002011-11-28T13:59:28.532+00:00"No matter what way we cut it, we have an abn...<i>"No matter what way we cut it, we have an abnormal society in so much as toleration levels of anti-Catholic bigots."</i><br /><br />I absolutely disagree with this assertion, and point to the massive public support for a bill aimed at tackling sectarianism as evidence.<br /><br /><i>"Remember it is anti-Catholic discrimination that has brought foreigners shaking their heids at us repeatedly and imposing santions on Rangers."</i><br /><br />As I've pointed out more times than I care to count, everyone in Scotland outwith the Old Firm despises Rangers AND Celtic, and dearly wishes they would both just fuck off and die. If Rangers are bankrupted by HMRC there will be parties in the streets over a job half done. <br /><br />That you somehow contrive to paint that as "toleration" of the Rangers support's grotesque bigotry is bewildering. We aren't prepared to tolerate *either* of you any more, hence 90% backing for the bill. (The 10% being Rangers and Celtic fans.)<br /><br /><i>"People with a Celtic and by extension catholic and/or Irish element have been targeted by bombs"</i><br /><br />Goodness me. You might want to wash your pots before criticising anyone else's kettles.<br /><br /><i>"may be subject to arrest for winding people up"</i><br /><br />Indeed. And quite properly so, if that winding-up is likely to result in violent disorder. I don't care if it's by making a religious sign or throwing dogshit, if you try to provoke people into violence you deserve to be arrested.RevStuhttp://wingsland.podgamer.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-62603858434299567862011-11-28T13:13:06.248+00:002011-11-28T13:13:06.248+00:00Stu
I agree with your last sentence completely wh...Stu<br /><br />I agree with your last sentence completely whether he/she/it exists.<br /><br />Now would you answer my actual point.<br /><br />No matter what way we cut it, we have an abnormal society in so much as toleration levels of anti-Catholic bigots. Even legislation that has been drawn up to deal with the manifestations of such is tinged with it.<br /><br />Remember it is anti-Catholic discrimination that has brought foreigners shaking their heids at us repeatedly and imposing santions on Rangers. People with a Celtic and by extension catholic and/or Irish element have been targeted by bombs and live under police protection. Are 4-5 times more likely to be targets of sectarian aggravated crimes. And as Indy helpfully points out may be subject to arrest for winding people up by making a religious sign, no matter how ill advised.Tonynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-31625043313588201442011-11-28T12:52:06.342+00:002011-11-28T12:52:06.342+00:00"Does that not say more about said fans and y...<i>"Does that not say more about said fans and yirsel for understanding their offence?"</i><br /><br />I didn't say I understood or defended their offence. I said it would be an attempt at provoking them, which it certainly would be. Blessing yourself should be a matter between you and your God, not anything directed AT anyone.RevStuhttp://wingsland.podgamer.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-31244337703514745032011-11-28T11:37:26.561+00:002011-11-28T11:37:26.561+00:00>>But Tony people can end up in court for bl...>>But Tony people can end up in court for blessing themselves now. Arthur Boruc? And people can certainly end up in court for singing songs.<<<br /><br />Glad you are still talking to me ;¬)<br /><br />Boruc was not brought before the Court - but in theory could have been, you are correct - he was cautioned by the polis for making gestures, purportedly the v sign as well as the sign of the cross. I am pretty sure that it is the latter that caused these oh so tolerant fans most offense. It caused a worldwide uproar at the time and again highlighted what is normal in our abnormal society. In that should a ned like Boruc - for that is what he is - seek to antagonise a large part of Scotland's biggest team (support wise) then he can do no better/worse than bless himself.<br /><br />should a normal civilised society be thus? In the same vein;<br /><br />>>A supporter crossing themselves is a different matter, and would in *most* situations not be provocative in my view.(Running up to opposition fans and doing it in front of them is a different matter, of course.)<<<br /><br />Does that not say more about said fans and yirsel for understanding their offence?<br /><br />>>Songs of religion and politics have no place whatsoever at football matches, and the default stance should be to treat them as offensive acts unless there are some sort of mitigating circumstances (which offhand I can't think of).<<<br /><br />I began trying to reason with you here, but realised that others better than me had tried and failed. I gie up, lock me up...............nurse!Tonynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-40180514640542526492011-11-28T10:41:55.037+00:002011-11-28T10:41:55.037+00:00"Do you consider farting in lifts to be offen...<i>"Do you consider farting in lifts to be offensive?"</i><br /><br />Yes. But unlikely to provoke violent disorder.<br /><br /><i>Do you think it should be a crime? What length of prison sentence do you consider would be appropriate punishment?</i><br /><br />I'd be fine with anything up to and including hanging.RevStuhttp://wingsland.podgamer.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-35490195561806710452011-11-28T10:19:19.521+00:002011-11-28T10:19:19.521+00:00RevStu said...
Do you consider farting in lifts ...RevStu said...<br /><br /><br />Do you consider farting in lifts to be offensive?<br /><br />Do you think it should be a crime?<br /><br />What length of prison sentence do you consider would be appropriate punishment?Groundskeeper Willienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-10718682078489569972011-11-28T10:01:26.386+00:002011-11-28T10:01:26.386+00:00"Do you differentiate at all between that act...<i>"Do you differentiate at all between that act and someone for example singing GSTQ, the soldiers song or making the sign of the cross"</i><br /><br />Unlike the example I suggested, it depends on the circumstances. I'm happy to leave that judgement to the police in the first instance, and then to a judge and jury. I can't think of a case where singing an anti-Semitic song in a synagogue wouldn't be a hate crime.<br /><br />Songs of religion and politics have no place whatsoever at football matches, and the default stance should be to treat them as offensive acts unless there are some sort of mitigating circumstances (which offhand I can't think of). <br /><br />A supporter crossing themselves is a different matter, and would in *most* situations not be provocative in my view.(Running up to opposition fans and doing it in front of them is a different matter, of course.) <br /><br />That said, fuck knows why anyone would feel the need to do such a thing in a public place anyway. The idea that God intervenes personally in football matches, and therefore needs to be thanked there and then, is facile and cretinous.RevStuhttp://wingsland.podgamer.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-74320537921590828812011-11-28T09:47:47.626+00:002011-11-28T09:47:47.626+00:00'The fact that he used a passing remark to bas...'The fact that he used a passing remark to basically say that anyone who has ever been to Pakistan is thereby associated with terrorism tells us something about Willie but it's not really pertinent to this particular debate.'<br /><br /><br />'to basically say' ????<br /><br /><br />I said no such thing and the fact that you've sought to misrepresent what I've said tells me something about you.<br /><br />As of course does your seeking to equate the security services questioning someone (however cack handedly) about Al-Qaeda with them questioning someone about a group of football supporters.<br /><br />Al Qaeda or The Green Brigade. Which requires the attentions of the security services?<br /><br />You still haven't said if the individual you've referred to has been to the Tribal areas (not Pakistan, per se, but the Tribal areas of Pakistan, the bit where Al-Qaeda are active).Groundskeeper Willienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-34350452367733921642011-11-28T09:02:20.472+00:002011-11-28T09:02:20.472+00:00Incidentally you have all still missed the point a...Incidentally you have all still missed the point about what I was saying re people being stopped at airports - which is a side issue and not really pertinent so apologies for distracting things but I wanted to make the point clear.<br /><br />Racial profiling is a fact and not really the issue. The issue is someone being stopped literally dozens of times and asked the same questions over and over again, in many cases by the same officers. In most reasonable people's eyes that would constitute harrassment, which is rather what I thought Willie was talking about in the first place. The fact that he used a passing remark to basically say that anyone who has ever been to Pakistan is thereby associated with terrorism tells us something about Willie but it's not really pertinent to this particular debate.Indyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04383904151475839441noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-39669794863173614392011-11-28T08:53:24.986+00:002011-11-28T08:53:24.986+00:00But Tony people can end up in court for blessing t...But Tony people can end up in court for blessing themselves now. Arthur Boruc? And people can certainly end up in court for singing songs. <br /><br />If there is a desire to eshrine the right of people to bless themselves or sing God Save The Queen in any and all circumstances then perhaps an amendment should have been drawn up to that effect and then there could have been a proper discussion.<br /><br />And if people think that the proposals are a form of thought crime that begs a question for me. Why aren't you campaiging to change current legislation which allows for certain offences to be aggravated if they are deemed to be racist, homophobic etc - because that is also surely a form of thought crime?Indyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04383904151475839441noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-55144175448626666222011-11-28T07:52:23.313+00:002011-11-28T07:52:23.313+00:00>>So you'd be fine with someone walking ...>>So you'd be fine with someone walking into a synagogue on a Friday night and singing the catchy Nazi children's toe-tapper "The Jew Is Filthy Vermin"? You wouldn't consider that incitement to hatred? You'd say that was just legitimate freedom of speech, right?<<<br /><br />I know I am going to regret this but.......<br /><br />Do you differentiate at all between that act and someone for example singing GSTQ, the soldiers song or making the sign of the cross (not all at the same time of course unless you are one of Celtic's labourite hegemony that is)? If you do then that is exactly my position all along.Tonynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-83747147435581999112011-11-27T23:18:25.626+00:002011-11-27T23:18:25.626+00:00And incidentally, it's weird and kinda amusing...And incidentally, it's weird and kinda amusing that half the objections to the bill are <i>"This is an unprecedented and catastrophically dangerous new piece of legislation for thought crime!"</i> and half of them are <i>"There's no need for this bill because everything in it is already covered by existing law"</i>.<br /><br />If you guys are going to team up to oppose the bill, you should probably get your story straight...RevStuhttp://wingsland.podgamer.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-57797298228770817422011-11-27T23:01:48.033+00:002011-11-27T23:01:48.033+00:00"I thought Kenny's article was quite good...<i>"I thought Kenny's article was quite good."</i><br /><br />Well, you would, as you agree with it.<br /><br /><i>"any law which could potentially make singing a song or making the sign of the cross an illegal act is quite simply an act of lunacy"</i><br /><br />So you'd be fine with someone walking into a synagogue on a Friday night and singing the catchy Nazi children's toe-tapper "The Jew Is Filthy Vermin"? You wouldn't consider that incitement to hatred? You'd say that was just legitimate freedom of speech, right?RevStuhttp://wingsland.podgamer.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-12026814471316285992011-11-27T22:28:49.537+00:002011-11-27T22:28:49.537+00:00Rev Stu - I thought Kenny's article was quite ...Rev Stu - I thought Kenny's article was quite good. His criticism of the bill was entirely valid.<br /><br />''This is increasingly looking like the worst law in the 12-year history of devolution, as well as an appalling political misjudgment by the normally astute Alex Salmond. I’m still unclear, having heard two entirely different explanations from Roseanna Cunningham, the minister responsible, whether the singing of the national anthems of the UK or Ireland can ever be a criminal act. The same with demonstrations of religious belief such as making the sign of the cross. Forget Tony Blair’s over-reaction to the “war on terror”, this law is as close to the dystopian concept of thought crime and arbitrary legal power as these islands have seen since Brian Faulkner introduced internment to Northern Ireland in 1971.''<br /><br />There isn't anything there that I can disagree with.<br /><br />Thanks for bringing it to my attention I hadn't reaqd it.<br /><br />ps I don't know if your OF rant was aimed at me, but I am not a football supporter. I am more usually to be found shopping for handbags on a Saturday afternoon or a nice pair of shoes. However, despite my distaste for the male excitement which is generated by men in shorts kicking a ball about, I do not regard it as a criminal activity & any law which could potentially make singing a song or making the sign of the cross an illegal act is quite simply an act of lunacy.Observerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08529106853098097239noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-62805298025396480582011-11-27T21:32:27.169+00:002011-11-27T21:32:27.169+00:00Wullie
Stoap it widye, you are reminding me of st...Wullie<br /><br />Stoap it widye, you are reminding me of stu too much.<br /><br />Why oh why do obviosly intelligent people retreat into pedantry when they over-reach themselves. Almost as bad as those that ignore salient points and then stop responding.<br /><br />As I stated earlier Jannie, it is a massive over-reaction if said story is true. We have since gravitated onto this scenario where you are somehow excusing the forces of reaction for treating muslims thus.<br /><br />Shame on you! <br /><br />Methinks you have been reading my auld pal phil's Islamophobic establishment shite. Can't for the life think why he refuses to print my comments on his site, and we were great on-line pals at one time. perhaps he realises that i can spot the hypocrisy inherent in his predjucises. Is that you phil?Tonynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-15442488586412939842011-11-27T21:16:11.860+00:002011-11-27T21:16:11.860+00:00Tony said
So you equate asking someone returning ...Tony said<br /><br />So you equate asking someone returning from visiting family in the Tribal areas of Pakistan about Al-Qaeda with questioning someone flying in from Belfast about a football supporters group?Groundskeeper Willienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-50210972542042806282011-11-27T20:54:31.459+00:002011-11-27T20:54:31.459+00:00"Within the confines of the blogs where only ...<i>"Within the confines of the blogs where only we anoraks meet, I think those of us who want independence should point out to the SNP where we think they are going wrong."</i><br /><br />Sure. But chickening out on the sectarianism vote will be a huge vote-loser, because unlike most of the posters on this thread the vast majority of Scots *aren't* blinded by the vested interest of being Old Firm supporters. <br /><br />I'm afraid OF fans really do need to wake up to the fact that everyone else in Scotland despises you, and could not possibly care any less about the differences that you think mark you so crucially and obviously apart from the "other side". To everyone else, you're both a cancer on Scotland.<br /><br />(Ironically, the most likely way to get the bill stopped would be if Old Firm fans announced they were massively in favour of it. Then and only then might ordinary people start to think there must be something wrong with it.)<br /><br />And there's a difference between raising some legitimate policy issues and embarking on a massive public binge of doom-and-gloom girning such as we've seen in the last few days, and which has been gleefully jumped on by the Unionist camp like Kenny Farquharson, who's clearly been reading this very comments thread closely - hi Kenny!<br /><br />The events of the last seven months do not justify anything remotely like the hysterical negativity that's suddenly sprung up. I can think of nothing more Scottish, showing the worst side of our national characteristics, than to be paralysed by such ridiculously overblown misery at the moment of our greatest triumph, and perhaps the threshold of an even greater one. Get a grip.RevStuhttp://wingsland.podgamer.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-27800726267303807342011-11-27T20:32:49.482+00:002011-11-27T20:32:49.482+00:00Jannie Wullie
Someone alluded to it earlier, kind...Jannie Wullie<br /><br />Someone alluded to it earlier, kinda.<br /><br />In your eyes the tenous linkage between someone who is Catholic or irish and who has family in or visited Ireland justifies the harrasment that was normal at say Stranraer at one time. And by extension justifies the excuse used by the British controlled Unionists death squads for their any Taig will do policy.<br /><br />I wasn't being childish before, far from it............the very thought. The words in the song 'Men behind the wire' are relevant; <br /><br />"Being Irish means we're guilty, so we're' guilty one and all"<br /><br />Swap Irish for Muslim.<br /><br />Shamen on you!<br /><br />Barbarian<br /><br />No need for that the SPL have signed a deal with sky that effectively guarantee's the survival of Rangers. The slightly improved money on offer is conditional on four auld firm games a season. Thus the SPL could potentially pay for Rangers to survive or be in breach of contract. <br /><br />Celtic will pay their share also.Tonynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-40195643854011204292011-11-27T19:38:58.779+00:002011-11-27T19:38:58.779+00:00'Alex Salmond has said that part of what this ...'Alex Salmond has said that part of what this bill is about is saving football.'<br /><br />"When HMRC liquidate the huns will Salmond be launching a rescue package 'to save Scottish football'?"<br /><br /><br />God help the SNP if they even try. Rangers allegedly used a tax avoidance process and have been caught (Arsenal did the same and coughed up).<br /><br />It's bad enough they rescued the trams to pull their councillors out of a pit. Let's not give them any ideas about paying off football debts.Barbarian of the Northhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09546237341963301419noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-62803999249150405012011-11-27T16:17:26.925+00:002011-11-27T16:17:26.925+00:00'Four Dunfermline fans have been arrested over...'Four Dunfermline fans have been arrested over racial chanting at their team's game against Celtic in Glasgow on Wednesday night'<br /><br />http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-15895454<br /><br />So why the need for new legislation?<br /><br />#####<br />Tony said...<br /><br />'Guilt by association/the men behind the wire?!?! You only weaken your argument.'<br /><br />That's silly and childish.<br /><br />1. Al-Qaeda exist.<br />2. They do present a threat.<br />3. They do operate in the Tribal areas.<br />4. People who visit family in the tribal areas may, whether they know it or not, have information on Al-Qaeda activities.<br />5. It's not unreasonable for the security services to ask people who have visited the Tribal areas if they saw or heard anything that might be relevant.<br />6. To equate this with the security services questioning someone about a group of football fans is ridiculous.Groundskeeper Willienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-8183686271847587202011-11-27T16:00:16.782+00:002011-11-27T16:00:16.782+00:00Observer
Playing a blinder.
Conan
I am on board...Observer<br /><br />Playing a blinder.<br /><br />Conan<br /><br />I am on board with your motivations and best intentions.<br /><br />Can you understand though how an activist like me is madly upset that the fitba Bill has the potential to criminalise me and mine who otherwise would never see the wrang end of the criminal justice system? No matter what the reason people object to expressions of politics in a fitba arena, we should not be subject to criminalisation............full stop!<br /><br />I might be assuaged by a sensible police force who would never abuse the powers expanded under this new Bill. The reality is though they seem hell bent on arbitrary - verging on the political - policing of late aimed at the Celtic support, and lends me to believe that they will soon be filling their boots.<br /><br />Jannie Wullie<br /><br />Guilt by association/the men behind the wire?!?! You only weaken your argument.Tonynoreply@blogger.com