tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post2450451530320054964..comments2024-03-28T07:16:39.621+00:00Comments on Lallands Peat Worrier: Conflict aversionLallands Peat Worrierhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18276270498204697708noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-65513620578040332572014-08-16T13:54:30.715+01:002014-08-16T13:54:30.715+01:00It's maybe a worrying sign to reply to yoursel...It's maybe a worrying sign to reply to yourself but on reflection I realise that this post misses a key point.<br /><br />Talking about a forum for debate confuses two different things – a ‘neutral’ medium for communication (print, internet, TV, even face-to-face) and a framework of shared norms (of language, logic, rhetoric and social etiquette) through which people can maintain understanding. Scotland currently lacks a forum for political debate on both levels. In terms of medium, Scotland’s print and TV media can claim a (declining) degree of commonality but they are so heavily biased against independence that they fail the test of neutrality: nationalists are excluded or choose to absent themselves. The internet, on the other hand, accommodates all viewpoints but is so fragmented that it fails the test of commonality.<br /><br />There is a further problem about finding a shared framework of norms within which people can debate. In modern democracy the classic forum for political debate is the nation-state, but in Scotland today this is precisely the point at issue. For unionists all debate presupposes an overarching British framework, for nationalists a Scottish framework. This is why both sides regularly talk past each other and accuse each other of bad faith. This is one reason (out of many) why devolution can’t provide a long-term solution: it can’t provide an agreed institutional framework or national identity. This is also why a No vote won’t in itself produce any resolution.<br />Dennis Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04533079746508505314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-37228838694798259922014-08-16T01:47:28.298+01:002014-08-16T01:47:28.298+01:00Curiously, I read the piece on Scottish Review and...Curiously, I read the piece on Scottish Review and found it disturbing, wondering how come the debate on Scottish indy as I'm hearing it seems to be on such a different planet as that described by Kenneth Roy. I say that as one who normally appreciates his writing. I was about to clock off for the night when I thought, "Wonder if the Peat Worrier has anything cheerful to say?" and hit on this contribution. Thank you, Lallands. My peats, now comfortably smoored for the night. Alastair McIntoshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02057511478889767753noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-11887943902769811712014-08-14T23:16:09.311+01:002014-08-14T23:16:09.311+01:00Kenneth Roy.
The man wrote a brilliant piece on t...Kenneth Roy.<br /><br />The man wrote a brilliant piece on the strange death of a Scandanavian woman on the beach at Prestwick. Perhaps he should stick to 'crime' which he is certainly good at if that is a typical example.<br /><br />On anything more about culture or identity, I'm no so convinced.<br /><br />In any event, it is an old-fashioned site, where comment, immediately, is not allowed. That says it all about where it places itself in the debate. Very elitist.<br /><br />douglas clarkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11422060678908705962noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-23738747889761769212014-08-14T20:21:43.587+01:002014-08-14T20:21:43.587+01:00Its interesting to note that most of those bleatin...Its interesting to note that most of those bleating about alleged divisions are on the NO side.<br /><br />Westminster would love to have an excuse to ban any further independence referendums if there is a NO vote on this occasion, and this bleating about Scotland being divided is just exactly the excuse they need.<br /><br />That is the same Westminster that would rather we had ignored the democratic deficit that fuelled the quest for independence and continued to accept the democratic deficit's continuance without question.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-60694901075837072922014-08-14T12:57:39.800+01:002014-08-14T12:57:39.800+01:00I have been reading, and for the most part enjoyin...I have been reading, and for the most part enjoying Scottish Review, but lately I really do think Kenneth has lost the plot.<br />Sad. David McCannhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06984728176760626862noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-31971903573074840012014-08-14T12:54:53.918+01:002014-08-14T12:54:53.918+01:00This comment has been removed by the author.David McCannhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06984728176760626862noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-30341871162373307022014-08-13T23:44:06.079+01:002014-08-13T23:44:06.079+01:00The Scots used to be famous (or infamous) for thei...The Scots used to be famous (or infamous) for their disputatiousness, from literary flytings (Kennedy and Dunbar, MacDiarmid, Ian Hamilton Finlay) to theological disputes that often ended in church schisms. But from 1707 till 1999 there was not much political debate internal to Scotland: politics was primarily something that happened at Westminster. So - unlike literature and theology - Scotland never developed any proper forum for national political debate.<br /><br />Over the same period Scotland had a thriving national and local press. But ironically, just at the time when Scottish politics reconvened, the Scottish media went into catastrophic decline. The Herald and Scotsman are moribund, the London media treat Scotland as an occasional irrelevance and Scotland has no serious TV presence. So political debate inevitably migrated to the internet and the social media, with all that that implies - masses of anonymous and pseudonymous posts that easily descend into point-scoring and personal abuse. There are oases of sanity (not least the saintly and scholarly LPW) but we can't kid ourselves that most of the population has access to balanced and well-informed debate.<br /><br />Whatever happens next month Scotland faces a media crisis. The print media and TV have failed and we can't yet foresee their digital successors. Sites like Bella Caledonia and Wings over Scotland will surely continue in some form but we still need relatively neutral news sources and broadly based arenas for debate.<br /><br />Scotland has special problems here but this is a global issue. How many places are there where Christians, Muslims, Jews, secularists and others can share information and opinions and engage in good-humoured discussion?Dennis Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04533079746508505314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-34853315100311740172014-08-13T23:33:07.106+01:002014-08-13T23:33:07.106+01:00With the benefit of hindsight, a shorter campaign ...With the benefit of hindsight, a shorter campaign would have been better. I'm Yes, and I am getting bored already. Baiterbloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10969687490036635753noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-44701342200576750852014-08-13T23:05:32.474+01:002014-08-13T23:05:32.474+01:00Thanks for that. Excellent article Peat.
Thanks for that. Excellent article Peat.<br /><br />Johnny Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00693855380425522256noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-23894481349735240442014-08-13T22:16:11.460+01:002014-08-13T22:16:11.460+01:00When I get home (I'm currently on holiday in L...When I get home (I'm currently on holiday in London, sharing a hotel room with a friend I suspect of being a No voter, but we haven't killed each other yet), I'm going to photograph a window in our village.<br /><br />It has four panes. Two panes have Yes posters and a third has a No Thanks poster. (I happen to know that the wife is the Yes and the husband the No, but I don't know how she negotiated to have two posters to his one.)<br /><br />I have at least seven nailed-on Yes-voting female friends, several of them born in England, who are currently tearing their hair out over their inability to persuade their No-inclined husbands. And yet the tea gets made and the dishes get done and someone does the washing and someone mows the lawn and I don't believe any of the relationships is heading for the divorce courts.<br /><br />(Yes I know it's supposed to be the women who are leaning more to No. Not in my circle of acquaintance is all I can say.)<br /><br />Maybe if Jenny Hjul shut her unpleasant mouth, we'd all get on a lot better too.Rolfehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17849975010197698907noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-29803095478015622892014-08-13T22:15:51.073+01:002014-08-13T22:15:51.073+01:00I work in the public sector and I can't say I&...I work in the public sector and I can't say I'm aware of anyone particularly keeping their heads down but there is an avoidance of turning every staffroom conversation into a political debate. You may find this 'spineless' - I just think it's a normal realisation that people have to work together and allowing conversations to be dominated by monomaniacs isn't the best way to do this.<br /><br />If like me you'd been to 'fuck off' back to a country you weren't even born in, you might be less convinced that the debate is particularly civil. People who think it has are usually socially isolated by virtue of class.Shuggyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00298179140317536572noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-248149680597585792014-08-13T22:09:10.701+01:002014-08-13T22:09:10.701+01:00It was quite some time ago, and in relation to an ...It was quite some time ago, and in relation to an entirely different subject, that I believe the last word(s) on Kenneth Roy were said.<br /><br />Those words were, "vacuous twerp".<br /><br />Identity of copyright-holder withheld to protect the guilty.Rolfehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17849975010197698907noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-14722666160573650132014-08-13T21:40:04.612+01:002014-08-13T21:40:04.612+01:00This comment has been removed by the author.Conan the Librarian™https://www.blogger.com/profile/01904339261121451779noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-69831436489389758802014-08-13T20:45:56.013+01:002014-08-13T20:45:56.013+01:00..........and Kenneth Roy is an auld woose...........and Kenneth Roy is an auld woose.Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04565579919684172507noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-4737044946736499702014-08-13T20:42:46.255+01:002014-08-13T20:42:46.255+01:00People can be silent 'Yessers' all they wa...People can be silent 'Yessers' all they want. When they're standing in the polling booth, they know what the correct decision has to be and that's 'Yes'Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04565579919684172507noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-39535211146342318012014-08-13T20:31:46.181+01:002014-08-13T20:31:46.181+01:00Thank fuck i'm a simple, working class Scot. I...Thank fuck i'm a simple, working class Scot. I'm a Yes, and so are most of my workmates. ;-)Jutemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11061671774494923407noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-28024439764501381412014-08-13T20:28:34.833+01:002014-08-13T20:28:34.833+01:00I wonder if the revulsion the folk at the Scottish...I wonder if the revulsion the folk at the Scottish Review have toward all this debate and disagreement isn't just a sad reflection on their inability to perceive that their relevance is deeply tied to the existence of the Old Order. In other words, their objection to all this constitutionality is that they specialize in discussing Scotland as it once stood: divided by religion, struggling with poverty, proud of its long-suffering civic sector despite Tory cuts, and in which the leading lights were tub-thumping Labour politicians affecting constant outrage.<br /><br />The Yes campaign promises to relieve us from all of that, meaning the Scottish review has to manufacture division, grudge, and grievance as that is all they understand. A Scotland where people are not nursin' their wrath to keep it warm is inconceivable to these people.Craig Gallagherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16651039747592264903noreply@blogger.com