tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post8846864571542070711..comments2024-03-28T07:16:39.621+00:00Comments on Lallands Peat Worrier: Devo-Max? Devo-Won't..Lallands Peat Worrierhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18276270498204697708noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-87897305878846171142014-09-10T14:04:32.931+01:002014-09-10T14:04:32.931+01:00Oh forgot to add thanks for the Atkinson Grimsha...Oh forgot to add thanks for the Atkinson Grimshaw - Glasgow still looked a lot like that when I was growing up in 50s!Edwin Moorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05317173893948248954noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-76579825246725177452014-09-10T12:43:58.392+01:002014-09-10T12:43:58.392+01:00Heard this morning ( 9.30ish) on some kind of BBC ...Heard this morning ( 9.30ish) on some kind of BBC Scotland phone in programme the ubiquitous Alastair Darling stating that yes, Westminster could dissolve Holyrood, and remove the devolved administration from Scotland. So, it's on record now, if the statement survives the targeted editing process of BBC Scotland. Probably not, then.<br />.Humerous Vegetablehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06749447163866759111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-21543090422768081322014-09-10T11:37:34.584+01:002014-09-10T11:37:34.584+01:00My "half of the population" may be paint...My "half of the population" may be painting with broad brushstrokes, but the devo options will need to acquire democratic legitimacy.<br /><br />In opinion polls, the public always sound very merry about devolution. But when you ask them about, say, the identity of the opposition leader (which is supposed to be slightly important, in a democracy), then 40 or so % of them cannot name her. This isn't the best argument for powers flowing back to Westminster, but I don't think that the devo lobby should get such an easy ride. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-53196225170543114142014-09-10T11:09:26.679+01:002014-09-10T11:09:26.679+01:00As you say, Water, that vagueness about the charac...As you say, Water, that vagueness about the character of the actual proposals can be double edged. On the one hand, it is liable to raise the hackles of some folk, unconvinced by vague statements of intention and principle, on the other, I think there will be folk who want to find - in these empty formulations - a pre-text to vote no. Delving into the detail of what is proposed is very unlikely to deliver that pretext for many, I'd suggest. Remaining at the surface level has its advantages too.Lallands Peat Worrierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07238432265194046726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-23885845239271913192014-09-10T11:06:20.256+01:002014-09-10T11:06:20.256+01:00It could probably be quantified, after the event, ...It could probably be quantified, after the event, tracking how often the term appeared in any of the papers over the past month. I imagine the statistical disappearance and reappearance of the idea of "devo max" would be vivid.Lallands Peat Worrierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07238432265194046726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-71817614022253494202014-09-10T11:05:04.860+01:002014-09-10T11:05:04.860+01:00Indeed. We can hear and see it enacted on the airw...Indeed. We can hear and see <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMhm6GcVdfM&feature=youtu.be" rel="nofollow">it enacted on the airwaves.</a> Much of the UK media, which is arguably now taking the lead on the referendum coverage, is weeks (months even?) behind on many of the issues, the history of the campaign, the vocabulary in which it has been transacted. Lallands Peat Worrierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07238432265194046726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-81600397629678477662014-09-10T11:02:41.027+01:002014-09-10T11:02:41.027+01:00Sorry to hear about your sister, Edwin. My cynical...Sorry to hear about your sister, Edwin. My cynical support for independence only extends so far, but it can't be right for folk, who've been extended a postal vote, getting screwed over by the UK government inciting Gordon Brown and comrades into breaching the spirit of the purdah agreement struck in Edinburgh. <br /><br />In terms of turnout, I've had my fingers crossed for something in the 70% + range rather than the 80% currently being bandied about, and would be cheerful about that. <br /><br />As to the measures proposed? They're essentially about mood, not detail as far as I can see, and as I argued last week, there is clearly a sizeable body of Scottish opinion which wants to believe that further devolution of meaningful powers is possible (even if, as Tychy says, the co-opting of the whole ~ 50% inclined to vote No to this position is somewhat problematic.) That's a powerful force if it can be pulled behind No again. From my point of view, I've always been a bit more sceptical than many of my comrades about the likelihood of the Yes side carrying the day: hence my current good cheer. It is as good as we could hope for, going into the last week. And in retrospect, the exclusion of a second question - controversial in the SNP too, though it was - may look like a calamitous error, if an understandable one.Lallands Peat Worrierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07238432265194046726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-10146634940169966422014-09-10T09:28:37.663+01:002014-09-10T09:28:37.663+01:00Before campaign BT wanted a 2/1 ratio in favour of...Before campaign BT wanted a 2/1 ratio in favour of NO,kill two birds,nationalism,devo+.<br /><br />Now they would take 50% + 1<br /><br />Every time they say more new powers,without stating what they are,is a nail in the coffin.last couple of days painful to watch!Scotland is no mood to have the piss taken out of themwaterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03242753707412340371noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-58532090626537249702014-09-10T08:36:17.478+01:002014-09-10T08:36:17.478+01:00Pretty bleak view but I share it. Eck made the mis...Pretty bleak view but I share it. Eck made the mistake of saying that only 3% of the electorate voted Ukip at the Euro elections, thus provoking the response yes, but only 10% of the electorate voted SNP. I still haven't got over the Hillhead council by- election turnout of 14%<br /><br />There is expectation of a large turnout next week - the Quebec turnout was 92 or 93 % - but I think ours will be a fair bit less alas.<br /><br />Re the panic measures - so ably darted by LPW - they seem to have worked in Quebec and may well work here. My sister voted Yes postally but would likely have gone No had the measure been on the table before now. <br /><br />Strange times. If the Yes campaign wins they will have Cameron to thank, for keeping Devomax off the ticket.<br /><br />Edwin Moorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05317173893948248954noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-54060340402658453212014-09-09T18:51:07.013+01:002014-09-09T18:51:07.013+01:00The change in language has been noticeable; I have...The change in language has been noticeable; I have heard "devo max", vague references to 'more powers', and, most surprisingly of all, we even had Brown mention the words "home rule" yesterday which I found especially startling. I suppose this is the kind of lexical dissonance is to be expected when Unionist panic has set in with a feverish vengeance. All the verbal ambiguity and sophistry employed here cannot however divert from the fact that this is mutton being dressed as lamb, an act of conjuring and misdirection for which BT deserves to be righteously excoriated. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09594140686462112657noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-3920677216838222014-09-09T14:44:00.586+01:002014-09-09T14:44:00.586+01:00Interesting.
There's this real sense, isn'...Interesting.<br />There's this real sense, isn't there, of the last few days having laid bare the colossal distance between the UK political class and the people of Scotland (not that they are in touch with any part of the UK population, except in the very limited sense that they focus on manipulating voters in SE England to vote for them every few years).<br />To see Osborne, Brown etc etc etc running around like the proverbial decapitated fowl ...well...it's all very enjoyable, all very thrilling....<br />But I just want to see that Yes on the day. Just that.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14172025067178523389noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-59920140635931119332014-09-09T12:19:05.656+01:002014-09-09T12:19:05.656+01:00More broadly, this debate is also democratically d...More broadly, this debate is also democratically depleted. The half (or possibly slightly less) of the population who are voting for the Union are being told that their vote has been interpreted as a demand for more localism and more devolution. There's no actual basis for this interpretation: indeed, barely 50% of Scots voted in the last Scottish parliamentary election. <br /><br />This might be a case of the Union giving up on the people before the people have officially given up on the Union. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com