tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post832745947080840622..comments2024-03-28T07:16:39.621+00:00Comments on Lallands Peat Worrier: Cameron: a willing actor in Salmond's drama?Lallands Peat Worrierhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18276270498204697708noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-66189404173857003242012-10-17T23:30:26.186+01:002012-10-17T23:30:26.186+01:00Sorry for deleting the comment. I hate typos.
Gro...Sorry for deleting the comment. I hate typos.<br /><br />Groundskeeper Willie, having total disrespect for and underestimating your opponent is a good way to lose elections -- and referendums.<br /><br />While it is always possible that Alex Salmond miscalculated, trying to say that he is stupid is highly inaccurate. I would say, Mr. Salmond strongly encouraged Cameron to paint him into that corner, the corner he wanted to be in.<br /><br />If Unionists really want to lose the referendum, continuing to revile Scottish nationalists should be a good way to do so.J. R. Tomlinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01109874615059334200noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-64005269142283634562012-10-17T23:28:16.872+01:002012-10-17T23:28:16.872+01:00This comment has been removed by the author.J. R. Tomlinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01109874615059334200noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-1981132581227267282012-10-16T22:40:50.099+01:002012-10-16T22:40:50.099+01:00"No more than Scottish people are ignorant of..."No more than Scottish people are ignorant of Cornwall or the Gower Peninsula, or County Down or East Anglia and their political situation(s). I wouldn't condemn them for that."<br /><br />Granted, Braveheart, but Scots are not governing on their behalf, or attempting to opine on their right to self-determine, or insunuating that a third or more of their people are moronically influenced to vote by no more than a Holywood film.<br /><br />Scots being ignorant of the politics of the Gower peninsula does no harm to the people of that area.<br /><br />Plus, I would have no real issue with a London media which was ignorant of politics in the Western Isles, but we are talking about a whole nation here, not the Gower Peninsula.<br />Bob Duncannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-14313875658086278072012-10-16T18:17:07.748+01:002012-10-16T18:17:07.748+01:00I have no idea what a Tory dominated hegemony of R...I have no idea what a Tory dominated hegemony of Rump Former UK would be like and nor do you,beyond speculation, Mr Harris.<br /><br />What tactics a future Scottish Government would take, far less who whoever would form that administration is equally unclear. I have no idea and nor do you, unless you believe that the SNP will be in situ for the foreseeable future and you have bugged their Cabinet meetings. I don't have any such inside track.<br /><br />I guess we will just have to wait and see?<br /><br />If it goes the way I have suggested in the Red / Blue Pill scenario, the only thing I am sure about is that you will be out of a job, unless you get the ermine?<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-46837012673785643682012-10-16T16:43:13.964+01:002012-10-16T16:43:13.964+01:00So there would be a Tory majority in perpetuity in...So there would be a Tory majority in perpetuity in England?<br /><br />(There wouldn't but see where the argument leads.)<br /><br />How would that pan out for Scotland?<br /><br />What would the rate of corporation tax be?<br /><br />How would Scotland attract inward investment when faced with a much larger neighbour that had a government committed to free market principles? A government that didn't fear challenge.<br /><br />And all those 'we didn't mind the economic side so much' tories creeping out of the woodwork in the north east and Perth & Kinross and the other former Tory strongholds (they haven't gone away you know).<br /><br />Not for me thanks.Groundskeeper Willienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-91885487367188919962012-10-16T15:56:16.404+01:002012-10-16T15:56:16.404+01:00Edwin Moore
I was aware of the three instances pf...Edwin Moore<br /><br />I was aware of the three instances pf the lack of need of Scottish labour seats for there to be Labour majority at Westminster. FPTP can work for some and not others depending on several factors.<br /><br />The lack of 40+ Labour MPs makes it much more likelier for there to be a Tory majority, especially when you factor in the point of boundary changes which I have read will even the votes per MP out for the Tories. <br /><br />The three instances, viz 1997, 2001 and 2005v were all under Tony Blair. If I remember well the Tory Party managed to work their way through three or four leaders, Major, Hague, Duncan-Smith (is that 2?) and Howard. Pretty insipid or unattractive bunch?<br /><br />The whole point is that the SE of England defines who controls Westminster. Blair sussed that and constructed New Labour to that end. Miliband now is doing the same and unless the Tories implode it will take a longer period for him to reposition Labour; certainly beyond the 2016 Westminster GE.<br /><br />Westminster is heading for a red pill, blue pill, same same but different political culture. Scotland I feel is traveling in a different direction and has been so for some time. <br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-40561916054123772632012-10-16T15:24:06.407+01:002012-10-16T15:24:06.407+01:00Lupus -
'If Yes he will at a stroke lose 40+ ...Lupus -<br /><br />'If Yes he will at a stroke lose 40+ Labour MPs and be a cert for a Tory hegemony at Westminster.'<br /><br />The current wedge of 40 or so Scottish Labour seats is indeed significant for Westminster but not necessarily decisive. England and Wales voted for Labour three times in a row -<br /><br />1997 General election, Labour majority 179. Number of Scottish Labour MPs: 56<br />2001 General Election, Labour majority, 167. Number of Scottish Labour MPs: 56<br />2005 General Election, Labour majority, 66. Number of Scottish Labour MPs: 41.<br /><br />And will doubtless do so again. One wee oddity of the Scottish politics scene that people keep forgetting is that though the Tories only got one MP at the last election, they got 412,855 of the votes - the SNP got 6 seats with 491,386 votes. With boundary changes, it is possible that the Tories may lose their Westminster MP, yet still get over 400,000 votes.Edwin Moorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05317173893948248954noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-3599945899349838552012-10-16T13:59:33.692+01:002012-10-16T13:59:33.692+01:00effiedeans
'If on the other hand, after bei...effiedeans<br /><br /><br /> 'If on the other hand, after being given nearly all of what he wanted, Salmond loses the referendum, he could not very well claim later that he was robbed, the result was unfair etc. Under these circumstances the SNP would have to accept the will of the Scottish people and give up for the foreseeable future any hope of independence.'<br /><br /><br />Exactly.<br /><br />Cameron has painted Salmond into a corner, and Salmond knows it. Groundskeeper Willienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-70002494805706292222012-10-16T12:56:21.771+01:002012-10-16T12:56:21.771+01:00I have been sitting quietly in my cage ruminating ...I have been sitting quietly in my cage ruminating away at just what has been agreed, in private, and why?<br /><br />The permutations are endless and ripe for the construction of endless conspiracy theories.<br /><br />Anyway, here is my take on it.<br /><br />Cameron has been advised by the opinion polls that the Scots don't really want independence and had Salmond been able somehow to jig a second DevoMax question the Union game would be up, today or tomorrow. I am not saying this is what Salmond wanted and he was able to accommodate Cameron's all or nowt line in the sand.<br /><br />If there is a no vote then Cameron emerges as the PM who saved the Union. If it is a Yes he will have already had some sort of off-the-books agreement which will allow him to keep the appearance of a World economic and military power so he can sit at he High Tables with the big boys.<br /><br />Either way he will push ahead with the parliamentary boundary changes which could engineer him 10 or 20 more seats at Westminster. If Yes he will at a stroke lose 40+ Labour MPs and be a cert for a Tory hegemony at Westminster.<br /><br />Miliband knows this is very much a real possibility and has already moved into the right wind ground where he will need to be post independence.<br /><br />Red Pill or Blue Pill for Westminster from then on with the same money backing the two as the LibDems will have by then shrunk to an even more useless rump. Thank you Secret Agent Clegg or as we will have to call you, E U Commissioner Clegg <br /><br />Tweedledum and Tweedledee variants of the US style political culture.<br /> <br />The Marketing boys will see to it that the perception of differences are nuanced and diffused. Both Miliband and Cameron would like that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-20178683254546060892012-10-16T06:39:21.250+01:002012-10-16T06:39:21.250+01:00How we will look back at the events of the 15th Oc...How we will look back at the events of the 15th October 2012 will depend on the result of the referendum. If the unionist side loses and Scotland becomes independent, then Cameron’s reputation will sink still further and recriminations will be made about how he wasn’t tough enough, with the Nats, gave into this, gave into that etc. If on the other hand, after being given nearly all of what he wanted, Salmond loses the referendum, he could not very well claim later that he was robbed, the result was unfair etc. Under these circumstances the SNP would have to accept the will of the Scottish people and give up for the foreseeable future any hope of independence. That would be a far better result for uninionists than if the SNP had received less of what it wanted in the negotiations. Under these circumstances 15th October 2012 will scarcely be remembered. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-47128797174108606262012-10-15T22:19:01.749+01:002012-10-15T22:19:01.749+01:00The protocol was interesting... reminded me of Bor...The protocol was interesting... reminded me of Borgen Episode 3, the Danish PM meets the Greenlandic PM - ostensibly as equals : 'Welcome to Denmark' is the Danish PMs opening gambit, despite Greenland being nowhere near political independence. However, respect and equality are expected in the tetchy relationship. Kill DeWabbitnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-21874624784571746772012-10-15T19:49:49.982+01:002012-10-15T19:49:49.982+01:00That's exactly how it looked to me. Cameron, a...That's exactly how it looked to me. Cameron, a neighbouring leader, and friend, signing a treaty with our first minister.<br /><br />Excellent.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com