tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post7696202312656876480..comments2024-03-28T07:16:39.621+00:00Comments on Lallands Peat Worrier: Preliminary thoughts on being "Better Together"...Lallands Peat Worrierhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18276270498204697708noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-65502210064481302462012-06-26T17:57:02.175+01:002012-06-26T17:57:02.175+01:00@Groundskeeper Willie: In the event of a no vote, ...@Groundskeeper Willie: In the event of a no vote, what happens to the SNP? That depends on the electorate and the parties record of government - compared with the less than stellar performance of the opposition parties. I know you feel that Salmond must immediately resign and then the SNP quit government, but it doesn't work that way. It's the voter who decides. If the majority vote no to indy, does not mean that they will then take leave of their senses and vote in the tories - nor does it mean they will re-elect labour - they could very well put the SNP back in charge.<br /><br />I am curious to see how unionists will react if that happens.James Mortonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-58428545528964286532012-06-26T11:31:19.836+01:002012-06-26T11:31:19.836+01:00If it's a straight Yes/No and the result is a ...If it's a straight Yes/No and the result is a No, what happens to Salmond and what happens to the SNP?<br /><br />What does the future hold for them?Groundskeeper Willienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-48544302262996947642012-06-26T11:24:38.181+01:002012-06-26T11:24:38.181+01:00Independence requires a commitment to aspiration t...Independence requires a commitment to aspiration towards a better future.<br /><br />The status quo is a quagmire based on behavioural apathy amidst the mud of dogma providing mere existence.<br /><br />The name for that mud is called 'politics' Westminster style - but there they call it democracy.Crinkly & Ragged Arsed Philosophershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08902364411241935656noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-84630337063460430622012-06-26T09:22:12.052+01:002012-06-26T09:22:12.052+01:00Doug
I'm being generous in allowing 35% in fa...Doug<br /><br />I'm being generous in allowing 35% in favour of "independence". Even with the Nats golden result last your, less than 50% of a 50% turnout could actually be bothered to get off their arses and vote SNP. <br /><br />That's less than 25% of the voting population who care enough to actually support the party of "independence".<br /><br />Constitutional change is a serious matter. You need solid majorities to make it legitimate in the eyes of the whole populaton. The Nationalists have no such majority in prospect.<br /><br />As for Devo Max or Devo Plus or even Devo Minus, that's the stuff of devolution politics as usual. <br /><br />It's not defined enough. Nor is it a big enough break to justify a referendum question. <br /><br />We could, if we wished, have the debate in election campaigns and party manifestos for Holyrood and press whatever is agreed through Westminster. That's what happened with Calman.<br /><br />And, BTW, the SNP has a mandate for a referendum on "independence". No party has a mandate for "Devo Max", even supposing we knew what it was meant to be...Bravehearthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07223196805548966030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-8123085357869782342012-06-26T08:23:34.268+01:002012-06-26T08:23:34.268+01:00Well, being a nat it is perfectly valid for LPW t...Well, being a nat it is perfectly valid for LPW to have a go at the pro-union launch but it seems to have gone down better than the independence one (at which the words that caused most merriment were along the lines of "sadly Elaine can't be with us tonight') - and the use of non-slebs was a fine stroke as well.<br /><br />As for mixed political opinions among the union team, well hoot toot as an auld lord used to say - the SNP is a pressure cooker of conflicting political and social views.<br /><br /><br />Just one point on Charles Kennedy - I can't share the 'lost prince' view of him by some in the pro-union camp nor do I share LPW's view of him as 'compelling'. <br /><br /> I had friends involved in the Hetherington Occupation and his performance in the inquiry was - to be kind - shabby<br /><br /><br />http://freehetherington.wordpress.com/Edwin Moorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05317173893948248954noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-730877643076502442012-06-26T02:30:27.297+01:002012-06-26T02:30:27.297+01:00Alex, your 65% figure includes a massive number of...Alex, your 65% figure includes a massive number of people who don't want the status quo either. Add these to the people calling for independence, and you arrive at a similar number above 60% that wants substantial changes of some sort. Probably more like 70%, in fact.<br /><br />The status quo is the minority choice. People either want a much larger degree of devolution to Holyrood, or they want full independence. So there is a debate to be had - unfortunately, people such as yourself are denying people a large part of that debate. It's no good telling them to "vote no just now and then we can talk about more powers" as Lamont and her ilk do - people are not thick. If that's the line from the unionist camp for the next two years, it's going to sound pretty tired very soon.<br /><br />On the other hand, why am I even bothering to try and engage with someone who has long proven himself to be incapable of a mature debate?Doug Danielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15017218581660887134noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-29428215557798323372012-06-25T23:12:39.598+01:002012-06-25T23:12:39.598+01:00Well Alex, for one we would never have to suffer a...Well Alex, for one we would never have to suffer another Tory Government.<br /><br />But I forget, they're your friends and allies now...Conan the Librarian™https://www.blogger.com/profile/01904339261121451779noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-17910262414166448512012-06-25T23:01:37.188+01:002012-06-25T23:01:37.188+01:00TBH, LPW, I don't see your point. 65% of SCots...TBH, LPW, I don't see your point. 65% of SCots don't want "independence", but the Nationalists are determined to have a referendum, hence a campaign.<br /><br />The 65% deserve representation and, whoever leads that will be a human being(s) with flaws. So what?<br /><br />Alex Salmond has flaws and so has the pro-break up campaign.<br /><br />The campaign should be about the benefits of "independence".<br /><br />So far, I've not seen many.Bravehearthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07223196805548966030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-69587962145728382972012-06-25T22:24:13.863+01:002012-06-25T22:24:13.863+01:00Further to my post above, the interview with Alasd...Further to my post above, the interview with Alasdair Darling is on:<br /><br />http://www.channel4.com/news/scotland-independence-no-campaign-launches<br /><br />And the relevant part is 02:24 in from the start.DougtheDughttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02952281599715356995noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-81734814893998277302012-06-25T22:19:03.773+01:002012-06-25T22:19:03.773+01:00You've definitely hit the nail on the head wit...You've definitely hit the nail on the head with this post LPW.<br /><br />I actually think that whatever changed David Cameron's mind to casually drop interest in the timing of the referendum has also probably led him to think that the result of the referendum is a foregone conclusion.<br /><br />The swing required for independence to happen is virtually unprecedented after all. <br /><br />Given the magnitude of full on independence, it certainly seems unattainable at present.<br /><br />I don't really think the onus is on the Better Together campaign to do much other than ridicule the occasional SNP bit of post independence blather.<br /><br />As you allude to, the independence camp's best ally is in fact David Cameron.<br /><br />If he lasts in office another year, then things may become much more interesting.Longshankerhttp://www.ahdinnaeken.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-16169819787265461542012-06-25T21:38:39.738+01:002012-06-25T21:38:39.738+01:00"Braveheart" is in fact Cllr Alex Gallag..."Braveheart" is in fact Cllr Alex Gallagher, from North Coast and Cumbraes ward in North Ayrshire. He chooses for some reason not to make this fact public anywhere, despite having been "unmasked" by keen-eyed nationalists, in the apparent hope that casual readers won't notice.<br /><br />Why's that, Councillor?RevStuhttp://wingsland.podgamer.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-62262983410849437052012-06-25T21:37:08.823+01:002012-06-25T21:37:08.823+01:00Did anyone else catch the Channel 4 news interview...Did anyone else catch the Channel 4 news interview of Alasdair Darling tonight?<br /><br />The interviewer asked Darling if Tory money was funding the No campaign and wasn't Labour just acting as a front for Tory money?<br /><br />Unlike the SNP and the Yes campaign the No campaign have been remarkably coy about who is funding them and Darling's response was no more informative than before.<br /><br />He refused to give a straight answer which usually means that the informtion in the answer is either embarrassing and/or dangerous.<br /><br />It will be interesting when or if the campaign funding ever gets revealed who is really providing the funding of Labour's no campaignDougtheDughttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02952281599715356995noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-36127549193827734972012-06-25T20:17:20.470+01:002012-06-25T20:17:20.470+01:00The council tax is a regressive tax - not as regre...The council tax is a regressive tax - not as regressive as the poll tax - but regressive nonetheless.<br /><br />Stopping increases in council tax is therefore progressive - not as progressive as reducing it or abolishing it and moving to LIT or LVT - but progressive nonetheless.<br /><br />Only in the world of folk who think that Labour remains a progressive force would the proposition that freezing the council tax is right wing emerge.<br /><br />Now, what about a policy of denying Scotland self-determination so that an unelected government can impose housing benefit cuts and regional variations to unemployment benefit. Isn't that really right wing?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-60523036081007734962012-06-25T20:15:09.371+01:002012-06-25T20:15:09.371+01:00I don't know anything about Councillor Gallagh...I don't know anything about Councillor Gallagher, perhaps someone could enlighten me?thegreenroomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07887996787390758745noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-60575753142467479092012-06-25T19:12:50.009+01:002012-06-25T19:12:50.009+01:00Just out of curiosity, Councillor Gallagher - why ...Just out of curiosity, Councillor Gallagher - why do you persistently fail to disclose your somewhat partisan position? I can't offhand think of any other elected political official who participates in internet debate under a pseudonym.RevStuhttp://wingsland.podgamer.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-20727460390034668872012-06-25T16:16:09.958+01:002012-06-25T16:16:09.958+01:00"....ideologically driven without any thought..."....ideologically driven without any thought for the outcome"<br /><br />d'you mean like the SNP?Bravehearthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07223196805548966030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-51130781492521362592012-06-25T16:07:15.460+01:002012-06-25T16:07:15.460+01:00"Surely, the council tax freeze is right wing..."Surely, the council tax freeze is right wing. "<br /><br />Yep. That's the point.....Bravehearthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07223196805548966030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-70667186032000561412012-06-25T15:54:57.018+01:002012-06-25T15:54:57.018+01:00Anyway, the ludicorus notion that you can make eve...Anyway, the ludicorus notion that you can make every poliyc 'right' or 'left' stems form a misunderstanding of what Government is there to do. It's job is to make the country the best it can be using whatever levers it has available to it. That means being flexible on policy not ideologically driven without any thought for the outcome. That's student politics.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-87330785295079620652012-06-25T15:52:07.745+01:002012-06-25T15:52:07.745+01:00Surely, the council tax freeze is right wing. It w...Surely, the council tax freeze is right wing. It would have to be a council tax rise to be 'left' wouldn't it - in your cosmology, that is?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-55456385502466431642012-06-25T15:52:03.963+01:002012-06-25T15:52:03.963+01:00Surely, the council tax freeze is right wing. It w...Surely, the council tax freeze is right wing. It would have to be a council tax rise to be 'left' wouldn't it - in your cosmology, that is?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1638916042737526171.post-71861769001653674202012-06-25T14:02:37.566+01:002012-06-25T14:02:37.566+01:00You confuse differences in political philosophy wi...You confuse differences in political philosophy with differences in constitutional approaches.<br /><br />In any case, the same tensions you highlight among the BetterTogether team exist within the Nationalist camp.<br /><br />Left wing Council-Tax freezes and Corporation Tax cuts, anyone?Bravehearthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07223196805548966030noreply@blogger.com